landyacht

[lasrocas]

 

This all started because of moving house.Not as many places to fly although i was very near a large common pasture ( Beverley Westwood )

In the summer the place is full of dog walkers , children , cows and cow sh#t and lots of grown men in rupert bear trousers hitting little white balls

with bats ,then trying to find them in the rough grass.

But in winter its a bit of a bleak place the walking sh#it machines have gone indoors or into burgers and only the hardiest dog walkers tackle the mud and slopes.

I had a short time kite buggying around the westwood , the ground was not great with a fair few slopes but it was almost doable, but after a few near misses with dog walkers who dont seem to have the first clew about theirs or there dogs safety i started to think about ways to make life a little easier.

Que Mr Holgate ....

Lets convert our kite buggy into a land yacht !!!!

( spoken with an aussie twang )

After sitting through a few videos and reading some forum posts i contacted JH , a few messages and a few kind words and the build was on.

I must apologise at this point for the blatant and fully intentional copy of the Blowmax ,i must also let you all know i am not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination , i dont have pots of money to throw at projects , i dont have a competative bone in my body but i do know how to laugh at myself and dont take life to seriously......

I am quite content to plod up and down a freezing cold beach on my own giggling like a girl whenever i manage to powerslide or go through a bit of water.

My buggy started life as a standard flexi bought from BigE second hand.

I was kindly given a new front end and downtube by Redsky which improved the bug massively allowing me to stretch my legs more.

Next came a buggybagman seat , again from BigE which made the bug so much more comfortable and gave plenty of support

( at 6ft 2 and 100kg i aint no lightweight )

and if the seat worked for E then i should be ok ( not often i have to look up to speak to someone but E is Big )

A set of midi lites for the rear and midi upfront completed my frankenbug.

I found tons of info about land yacts and how to build them , i read so much info from chook on a couple of sites and again blatantly copied what i thought might work.

For a guy who so obviously excels at his chosen sports , Chooks posts were all so positive and helpfull and not full of  YOU MUST GO FASTER,YOU MUST WIN  even though he does !!!!

I started collecting bits and pieces for the build.

I am lucky that we have a contractor at work who does all our pipe fitting and welding (stainless Dave ) all in stainless steel.

For the cost of a couple of bottles of rioja ( thats wine , thats red , thats not in tinnies  ( ;  ) i could get most of my welding done to a good standard.

First thing was to extend my axle from the standard 1000mm to 1550 , dont know why 1550  , it just seemed a good number.

This at least should give me more stability and less chance of tipping , at least that was my theory and a lot of people in the know seemed to agree.

The new axle diameter is 46mm , this has added a fair bit of weight but i think its a good move

Next came the mast step supports , these are made from 10mm thick alloy ( ebay £8 )

These were measured up and drilled to fit over the downtube without any mods/drilling to the downtube.

The supports had to be packed out to accomodate the mast step , i used ptfe sheet ( £6 off ebay ) for this ,very strong ,easy to work with and cheap.

I sandwiched 1mm rubber sheet between the ptfe , support plates and the downtube my theory was this may give a slight flex to the support rather than the downtube taking all the torsional twist under load , on the other hand i could be talking boll#cks.

Next came the mast step , 500mm long ,60mm ID s/s tube.

I had 2 M12 studs welded to the front of the mast step , these were to fasten the braces on that would go to the back axle.

Also a fastening point for the downhaul pulleys + a cleat to tie the downhaul too.

The mast step is held by one bolt , this will allow the mast to be angled (rake ) 7 degrees approx , a lot of conflict on the amount of rake on the forums , most people seem to agree between 3 and 10 degrees so again 7 seemed a good number.

At the moment the braces are fixed so the step angle cannot be easily altered , but in the future i will have new s/s braces made with turnbuckles on them , so the angle can be easily altered , for now i need to prove the project works.

The braces i have used are scaffold poles ( total overkill ) but they were free and alloy so no rust.

Whilst doing all this i managed to bag myself a mast ( carbon ) ,boom and sail ( 5.5 mtr single cam baton ) for £30.

The sail is not in the best condition , but again it will do to prove the concept ( or not )

Once i had the braces mounted , they are bolted to the mast step and fixed with U bolts to the axle , i realised how much more solid they made the bug feel.

I put a reducing sleeve inside the mast step , then inserted a 1.5 mtr length of scaff pole into the reducer/step.

The scaff pole has 150mm slots cut in the top end to allow flex.

The mast then sits on this scaff pole , the pole goes 1mtr into the mast and 450mm into the mast step.

The mast rotates freely on the scaff pole , although i have not fixed the scaff pole in place and cant decide if i should or not. ???

The scaff pole has a cap on the end and i have put a squash ball in the mast step for the whole thing to rotate on.

Still a fair way to go but lets get the sail on this thing.

The sail has a single cam baton , i have never been near a windsurfer before so this all looked a little odd.

Do you slide mast along the cam or do you get mast in the luff tube then try and pop the cam onto the mast ? ( listen to me with all the technical words , normal service will be resumed shortly )

Anyway i got the big flappy thing on the long stick and popped on the little plasticky bit ( thats better )

I had the buggy on its side at this point to make it easier to mount the mast , once all in place i set the buggy back on its wheels.

The 1st thing i noticed was how high the mast was and how big the sail looked.

The 2nd thing i noticed was my neighbour storming towards me because i had blocke all his windows !!! ooops.

As i set the bug back on its wheels i realised how rigid it was with the braces , almost no twist at all , i hope thats a good thing.

The sail looked pretty good although as mentioned not the best example , then i started to sort out the downhaul.

I am using a triple block at the sail end and a double at the mast step.

Once i started pulling on the downhaul line the sail took on a completely new shape , the mast started to get pulled back by the downhaul ( probably about a metre from vertical ) and the sail eventually became drum tight over all its area.This is when all the posts that chook had made about downhaul made sense.

It was now time to set up the main sheet line.

I now realised my pulley blocks are probably to small , i only have 6mm main sheet line when i reckon it should be 10-12mm ???

What the hell , i can get new pulleys later i need to finish this so i can sail , drive,ride it over christmas.

The mainsheet line was just overlapping the bottom edge of the sail and i was worried this may cause an issue when the sail changes side.

More images on the web and it seems a lot of land yachts have an extension off the back rest which seems to cure this problem.

Lots of rummaging in the garage but nothing springing to mind then a eureka moment , old bike handlebar stem , piece of stainless tube , drill a hole , bit of string , now this is my type of engineering and the rear backrest extension thingy is born.

Now i could carry on with this blog and say how well it went , how fast i went , how much fun i had and how much cow sh#t i got on my tyres but the truth is , its 2 days until christmas and with a wife , 3 children , 3 grandchildren a dog and probably a partridge in a pear tree i wont get to try this for at least another week so for now

Thats all folks 

 

 

 

 

 

[jhn.holgate]

Good job, Craig   Bloody awesome stuff.  Looking forward to hearing how it all works out.  The thicker the main sheet line, the better as it's just easier on your hands.  I was surprised by how easy it is to lift a wheel in the Blowmax (not intentional) but letting the main sheet out soon fixes that.  @Chook told me that if I tip over, keep my hands and arms inside - ie:  don't throw an arm out to stop yourself - the mast will do that.  Then you can just crawl out and reset   (haven't done it myself yet).

[andy666]

Great write up  I can't wait to read the maiden voyage report and maybe some video.

[Chook]

Hey what an awesome build!!!!     5 stars from me!!!

7 hours ago, lasrocas said:

 

By shifting the bottom of your bracket back along the swan neck wouldn't that change the mast rake angle if needed? May have to elongate one side of the hole on the triangulation strut so the bolt is not side loaded. 

7 hours ago, lasrocas said:

The sail has a single cam baton , i have never been near a windsurfer before so this all looked a little odd.

Do you slide mast along the cam or do you get mast in the luff tube then try and pop the cam onto the mast ? ( listen to me with all the technical words , normal service will be resumed shortly )

You have it correct. Fit the mast, downhaul it with some sheet rope tension as well if it helps and then pop the cam on. They can be a pain if the tension is not just right. Practice this with the yacht on it's side, (The zip on the pocket up) and support the mast with your knee push down on the batten really hard and lift the cam up onto the mast.

7 hours ago, lasrocas said:

It was now time to set up the main sheet line.

I now realised my pulley blocks are probably to small , i only have 6mm main sheet line when i reckon it should be 10-12mm ???

Yeh, I use 10mm as that's the size my ratchet block takes without jamming. I also wear gloves that have soft areas on the face of the hand and fingers which grip the rope without having a death grip on it all the time. $6.50 from Bunnings in the glove/gardening section.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/safety-zone-medium-gripflex-gripper-safety-gloves_p5812941

 They are knitted so your hands don't get sweaty as well. Buy a couple of pair as they do wear out over time/kilometers. 

 

Your sheeting on the sail looks great and the little over lap by the rope will be ok I reckon.

3 hours ago, jhn.holgate said:

 @Chook told me that if I tip over, keep my hands and arms inside - ie:  don't throw an arm out to stop yourself - the mast will do that.  Then you can just crawl out and reset   (haven't done it myself yet).

This is very true BUT only if you have a seat belt which I think is REALLY important. Anchor it to your rear axle/side frame intersection each side.

I have had some huge crashes that have pitch poled the yacht over the mast at high speed and have written yachts off and I came out "wide eyed" with only a few bruises, thanks to being held in by the seat belt and wearing a helmet.  

I really nice setup yacht.  It's really nice to see people giving it a go. At this you have excelled.

Seasons greetings.

[jhn.holgate]

17 minutes ago, Chook said:

This is very true BUT only if you have a seat belt which I think is REALLY important.

Yes indeed - I had missed that one!

[Chook]

Yes!!! I looked at the front on view of your sail again and I'm wetting myself. Carbon mast and cammed sail.............it looks awesome!!!!   

Cambered sails rule!!!  Well done.

8 hours ago, lasrocas said:

 

 

 

 

[lasrocas]

Thanks for the positive comment guys but its really just a nodded version of what john did

With a lot of info stolen from chook so credit to you two for the inspiration

I will hopefully get some video footage ( not to your standard john ) over Christmas/ maiden voyage

Need to sort a seat belt next , missed that one ☺ 

Hope you all enjoy Christmas and thanks again ?

Craig

 

 

[lasrocas]

@Chook

I tried to post this thread on seabreeze but for some reason it would not load that's were I read most of your posts

Craig

[Chook]

3 hours ago, lasrocas said:

@Chook

I tried to post this thread on seabreeze but for some reason it would not load that's were I read most of your posts

Craig

Ahh not sure about what to do there. Perhaps a message to Laurie who runs it, might sort you out there. If a thread hasn't been used for a while it times out any new posts till he unlocks it. Perhaps a new thread in Construction?? Dunno?? Your build is certainly worthy of its inclusion.

 

[Mez]

What an awesome build @lasrocas

Can you take a clearer photo of the back end, I'd love to see how you've created the pulley-whip (that pulls the sail down for more tortness) And a photo of you sitting in it, to see your position - especially if your over 6 foot!

Well Done again - brilliant work! 

Mez

[lasrocas]

Hi

thanks for the comment Mez.

I will try and get more pics on its maiden voyage/flight/launch this weekend , weather allowing.

I am pretty sure it wont be as good as a commercial build land yacht , but i wanted to utilise the kite

buggy i had (greedy yorkshireman )and with only a few nuts and bolts removed its back to the standard

frankenbuggy it started out as.

Nothing is welded to the frame and none of the buggy frame has been drilled , so hopefully no weak points

but the proof is in the pudding as they say.

I am sure there will be adjustments made and all input is welcome.

I intend using it on the beach but my proving ground is a large pasture , the balloon tyres with no grip should be

amusing on grass , unless i get some bearings for my barrow wheels before weekend.

Hopefully i will get some video footage just cant decide were to place cameras , top of mast,boom,axle or head ?

thanks for all comments again

craig

[jhn.holgate]

6 hours ago, lasrocas said:

the balloon tyres with no grip should be

amusing on grass

I don't think grip will be a particular problem - the forces on the buggy are quite different.  I think at slowish speeds, you'll start tipping before you start sliding.  I think.......

[lasrocas]

ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS WIND SPEED VS SAIL SIZE.

i currently have only one sail 5.2 mtr i think.

what wind speed is safe ?

i dont want to be overpowered on the maiden voyage until all is proven to work.

Kites i have no problem with , but a sail is another story.

i have a forecast of 12-15 mph for the next few days , sailing on uneven fairly dense grass.

Just mocked up the belly pan , made me chuckle and yes i do know what it is , if you dont GOOGLE

cheers craig

the field i will be sailing on from today

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chook]

Hi the 5.2 will be a very versatile sail and it's always better to have a bit too much real estate up the mast in softer going/grass.

I use 5.5 up to 45 knots+,  but I weigh 113 kgs.

Starting out I'd say you may need more wind than 15mph to get rolling easily. It's better to be overpowered and don't sheet in as hard. It's better to be a bit too strong, than to sit there all afternoon and not going anywhere.

Just remember too as the sail changes sides you must sheet in and then out so the sail/boom  doesn't crack over suddenly and capsize you. With practice it becomes very fluid and you can power out of a tack or jibe. Keep the excess rope onboard so it doesn't go under a wheel. The sheet rope should be long enough so the sail will go out to almost 70 or 80 degrees to the mast to get you going in light conditions and turn towards the wind slightly to unstall the sail and get the tell tails streaming on both sides BEFORE you sheet in, or nothing is going to happen.

A good idea is a ribbon on your mast top for wind indication so you always start off across the wind. Being a kiter this shouldn't be a problem anyway. I always use a wind direction indicator to indicate apparent wind at speed this is what you sail by and is your primary instrument.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Hawk-Mk-2-Wind-Indicator-little-hawk-Mk2-/360378717718?hash=item53e83ed616:m:muUkgs3Wze20TYjR7XSA0kQ

Just remember if in doubt sheet out. If your not moving sheet out to generate some lift/power. If it all turns to crap drop the rope and steer down wind.

Tell tales on your sail are paramount to see if your sail is stalled or needs trimming. I just use different coloured wool for each side of the sail and they are 250mm long and attached with clear sticky tape. Put the different colours 75mm apart (for instance the one on the 1st sail panel one colour higher than the other on different sides of the sail. I use all black one side of sail and red the other. Black ones 75mm higher than red. This helps to see the back side of the sail one, when sailing. If they are both at the same height it's hard to tell which one is doing what in bright sunlight.) 

 

Good luck with your maiden.  

[lasrocas]

cheers for that chook ,

i was a bit worried the sail may be to big to start with , but hey whats 45knots between friends (you must have some serious kahoonas pal )

299 × 340 - en.r8lst.com

will get some telltails set up on the sail

 

[lasrocas]

1 st time out today , only had a couple of hours but it gave me chance to see if it all fitted together and all the bits were in the right place.

just like kiteing , as soon as it was built up ready to go the wind dropped from 15-20 mph to around 8 mph so not enough wind to get going

just a couple of slow crawls , chook  , you were right about the more sail the better , my sail (5.5 mtr i checked ) seemed quite a good size

and if anything a bigger one may be needed , obviously no real wind to try it in but the cam baton changed sides as i assume it is supposed too ,the downhaul pulled the sail tight , i think i may need a little more outhaul but not sure , the trailing edge of the sail did not seem as tight as the rest of the sail although there is a split in the sail near the bottom edge which may account for this you can see it in the 2nd pic covered with gaffer tape.

Hopeing monday may be a better day for another trial , if not my son can just push me around the field again

craig

ps happy new year to all

[Chook]

Awesome. Bring on the wind. Nature can be cruel when you have new toys.

Yeh looking at the sail there are still creases in your 1st and second panel so a bit more downhaul if possible. If the cam changes sides easily you are on a winner.

Overall I'm VERY impressed with your build. Well done.

[lasrocas]

wow

Did chook just use my build and impressed in the same sentence 

I must confess to being quite pleased with myself although we are talking about a man who is impressed by the little toys in Christmas crackers.

I think I need to put an extension on the mast tip so I can get more downhaul , I have an extra mast that should do the job

This will also help when I get a bigger sail

Another outing tomorrow hopefully

Thanks for all the kind comments

Craig

 

[Chook]

Yes a great build.

So many people ask a million questions, sometimes take one for a spin and love it and then do bugger all about it.

I really love your "lets just build it" and see attitude. The world really needs more people like you.

 @jhn.holgate, @gannet, @plummet, @andy666, @CasualRural just to mention a very few of the HUGE list here on the forum.......... are all other mad inventors that share their ideas. This is what makes the forum and sport just soo much fun. Everyone here contributes something that sometimes sows the seed and really changes the way we do things.

We adapt, fail, alter, fail, modify,,,, smirk,,,, then finally build something that works and have a smile like we have swallowed a coathanger. That's the best bit.

 An old vacuum cleaner tube over the tip, or even PVC pipe if it's only 150mm or so, it wont bend up there. That will save having to reinforce the base of another mast just yet. The sail will stretch a bit after 20 mins or so sailing after not being used for years so allow a bit more.

[andy666]

Craig, that looks bloody brilliant. And top marks for not destroying the kite buggy in the process. Although I suspect that the mast might stay permanently fitted and another kite buggy ordered  

[lasrocas]

Honoured to be part of the mad guy in a shed list.

I have just cut a mast tip extension from a broken mast I was given so I will see how that works should allow for more downhaul tension and also a bigger sail.

How much longer would the luff tube be from a 5.5 to a 6.5 MTR sail ?

Don't know about another buggy ,couple of bikes lots of kites

And running out of space.

Luckily though buggy's are readily available and as cheap as chips second hand in the UK

Flexis can be picked up from £75 and libres from about £150

So never say never ?

[Mez]

19 hours ago, Chook said:

 @jhn.holgate, @gannet, @plummet, @andy666, @CasualRural just to mention a very few of the HUGE list here on the forum.......... are all other mad inventors that share their ideas. This is what makes the forum and sport just soo much fun. Everyone here contributes something that sometimes sows the seed and really changes the way we do things.

Ive run out of likes for all the above comments - Well Done

And then there's @igeighty who when given a Gaastral Sail (still a big thank you to @.Joel and @Chook), can moderate it for a blokart rigging

He He, I'm surrounded by clever people!

 

[Chook]

4 hours ago, lasrocas said:

How much longer would the luff tube be from a 5.5 to a 6.5 MTR sail ?

They usually step up in 300mm increments but can change with different sail manufacturers.

Masts are usually 4.3 Metre long and around 17-18 IMCS, (IMCS- google that one) 4.6 Mtr  is 25 IMCS , 4.9 Mtr is around 29 IMCS and 5.3mtr can be up to 38 IMCS. There are soft bottom masts, constant curve masts or like my Severn sails use hard top masts. Every sail manufacturer seems to have there own recipe . The sail dictates which mast to use and is usually written on the sail and sail bag.

If you slip another mast tip over the original, by removing the plastic tip of the extension, a wooden dowel can then be slipped in and used to extend the mast easily. Tape the dowel in with electrical tape so it doesn't remain in the sail when de-rigging. Sometimes you can be lucky and find a genuine windsurfer mast extension that uses wooden/plastic spacers to alter luff length and they are the "bees knees" but don't always fit all masts.

[lasrocas]

Got a real dumb question to ask , 

when sailing the land yacht is it the same as a kite buggy as in you sail across the wind ?

went out today and had a frustrating session , seemed to go ok ish one way but when i turned , nothing.

I also think part of the problem is the sail not been big enough , looking on ebay now for some bigger hardware.

The grass was fairly deep and boggy , then it pi##ed it down so went home and had coffee and biscuits instead

cheers craig

[jhn.holgate]

1 hour ago, lasrocas said:

when sailing the land yacht is it the same as a kite buggy as in you sail across the wind ?

I think so.  You can't sine the sail up and down so it's much slower to start, but once you get a bit of momentum and apparent wind going, you should be quicker than a low aspect kite.  You may have to use a more downwind line to start.   I've often seen the European videos where they push the buggy to get it going then quickly jump in it - easy with some designs, difficult with others.  Chook should have some good tricks for getting started.  I imagine a paddock would be very hard to get going in....