Hurls10802 Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Hi Guys, I' m a newbie to the site, and pretty much to the area. I moved from Ireland to Oz in Sept 2012. I was having a little buggy session on Stockton beach on Thursday 17th April 2014. A 4x4 was driving along side me and the lady driver was smiling at me! I thought cool, she might tell me how fast I was traveling! Instead she signaled for me to stop, a guy popped out from the passenger side, he had some badges on his sleeve and I thought, Oh shite! I'm going to get a fine! The bloke and lady were lovely, but informed me that I should not be flying on the beach, (a beach by the way that had about 12 people on it, 4 of them being my wife and kids!!). They said I could fly back up to the burbi car park, but should not fly on there again? Ion the way back I got talking to some kite surfers and they said just keep flying, I cannot be given a fine! So just to set my mind at ease could someone please inform me what the regulations are? Can I fly there for free?, do I need a permit?, can I get a fine if I fly? Is there a club I can join? I live in Nelson Bay and try get to the beach every day and try sneek in a quick buggy session while the wife and kids walk the dog. I would appreciate any advice, Hurls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger37 Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Hi Hurls, I am really interested to hear any responses to this. If you look at the NSW section under Mayday you will see that a number of us are planning on heading to Stockton Beach over the weekend 16/18 May. Hope you can join us. It would be very disappointing if I drove all the way from Canberra and were not allowed in the beach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdhot Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Hi Hurls, I was told that you were allowed to buggy on the beachfront but not allowed to venture into the dunes but this was not by any person of authority. I will however make some phone calls next week to the necessary authorities and see what's the go maybe we may be able to apply for a permit for Mayday to be able to venture into the dunes ... depending on cost Dune restriction was introduced after the May storms in 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger37 Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Thanks John - I look forward to hearing the outcome of your investigations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buggy boy Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 In the past 12 months I have buggied down the beach and passed the national parks suzuki jimney going in the opposite direction and also buggied slowly down the beach while being watched by the rangers, who were stopped watching me from 100 metres away and nothing was said! Thats going to suck if you cant buggy anymore! They run trotters up and down the beach every low tide unregistered mostly faster than I can go and I have had several off the leash dog encounters involving my young children but strangely never had any issues with kite buggies It will be interesting to get an official verdict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 You'd think they would be happy that you're not shooting penguins with a 22 or defacing buildings with paint, or getting drunk and disorderly........ Clearly flying a kite on a what amounts to a "public highway" you must be a criminal. Worlds gone mad. Full of greenies, lawyers and political correctness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buggy boy Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Just wondering about the guy who I saw there screaming up and down the beach on his landboard being towed by his dog on a long leash, or the guy with a paramotor flying over the dunes. I notice camel and horse dung is accepted by the trailer load up and down the beach and all around the bottom car park without a mention. Last time there was someone teaching their unlicensed friend how to ride a trail bike through a crowd of people on the beach at the section zoned as "no vehicles beyond this point!" You are more likely to be harpooned by a poorly anchored beach umbrella blowing down the beach than run foul with a considerate chap taking a leisurely run down the beach when its safe to do so in a kite buggy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoutherlyBuster Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I can not say with any authority what is or is not allowed on Stockton, but the next time some one says you can't buggy there ask them by by what authority and say " there are no signs saying I can not kite here". I get this sort of thing happening at my local spot every once in a while, never amonted to anything. Best advice I can give is be curtious to other beach users, slow down to a walking pace when passing people / animals. Now in contrast, in my local spot one fellow got fined $2000 for hitting a dog with his kiting vehicle, got the fine through mail direct from the council. I've been kiting at the same spot for years, some times with dogs and I keep out of the dogs and dogs owners way -- no problem, no fines, no sign saying I can not kite there. Regards, Norman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummet Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Southerly has a point. Just because somebody with a badge tells you your not allowed, doesn't mean its the case. Every year I attend an event called the moose meet. Its an outlaw gathering of dudes at epic sand dunes. In fact this year will be the 20th year of the moose meet. Its the oldest traction kiting event in the world!... Anyway. We are there camping responsibly almost every year DOC (department of conservation) turn up and tell us to leave. We talk to them politely and inform them that we don't ride in the area's of the nesting seabirds and by the way. NO we are not packing up. We will stay here and complete our event. The DOC people go on their merry way as they actually have no authority to tell us to leave. But they pretend like they do!... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 yeh with MAYDAY coming up it would pay to contact the council up there and ask - surely we could discuss a permit with them if they feel so inclined (including access to the dunes ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdhot Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Hi Guys, Sorry for the silence I've been flat out like a lizard drinking After talking to some follow buggiers that have been through this dilemma I was given a name to contact at the Worimi Land Council / National Parks to find out that he had recently just left on a years unpaid holiday (possibly traveling Oz and visiting all the National Parks before they are off limits) and the new person was not available at the time of call, and I'm still waiting to hear from him I will try again tomorrow to see if I can contact him. So unfortunately at present I have no further news to report about kiting. I did hear however on there phone process selection, that all vehicle are confined to the beachfront till after south of Lavis Lane where you can use the dunes, and there is a 4 wheel drive entrance. If this is the case we would need 4x4's and I can't assist there. Lavis Lane: Williamstown if you wish to look it up on Whereis / Google Earth. From the end of Lavis Lane to the water is still about 2.5 - 3 k's JD NEWS UPDATE: I have received call from the authorities and missed them because of some stupid idiot wanting to know about how much money they could throw at me to install a new hot water system, don't they realise kiting is more important, I shall ring Tony tomorrow so "HOPEFULLY" we should have an answer then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoutherlyBuster Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Thanks for the google maps hints JD. Can spot the ship wreck there as well, just a bit SW of the location you mentioned. I remember last time I went to Stockton some of the kiters made it down to the ship wreck. Good luck with getting permissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdhot Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 UPDATE: As yet I have been unable to speak to the ranger involved, he's been away however he returns tomorrow and a message has been left for him to call me So HOPEFULLY we will know tomorrow JD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Any Luck JD? i got an email from WCL today regarding the Draft Plan of Management and the inclusion of Land Yachting - if you don't have any luck let me know and i will give the number they have given me a call tomorrow to see what can be organised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdhot Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Hi Crazy, Can you give me a call 0450 33 06 22 JD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobG Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 The outcome of this is of course the deal clincher for the MayDay meet. I always challenge anyone who throws authority at me in situations like that with a simple question: "Where is it written down?". 99 times out of 100, they can't back up their assumed authority. Only recently Jimbo the comedian was pulled up by the council whilst walking his goat (Gary) on a designated goat track. A council ranger pulled him up and pointed to a sign that said "NO DOGS". He said, "But he's a goat". The council ranger replied, "Well A dog is an animal, your goat is an animal, so the sign still applies." I didn't know lobotomies were still carried out in Australia... Cheers - Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 All, unfortunately, i have had a brief chat with the Stockton ranger today (Tony) and based on my understanding of the conversation its a NO to kite buggying on Stockton at the present point in time. JD - i have asked Tony to give you a call - maybe you can convince them? btw JD - do we have any EK reps that can approach NPWS to organise event permissions for buggying on stockton?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobG Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 A shame. I'll cross the MayDay meet off my calendar then. It's all things like this that add to my ever-growing list of reasons to consider moving back to the UK... Beaches there are all publicly accessible and you can buggy wherever you like. Same for mountain biking - ride wherever you like. Forest tracks, bridle trails, mountains, hills. Here, there's closures, notices, locked gates, fines, rangers, permits... the mind boggles Cheers - Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emidub_4 Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Hi guys, here is the extract I found from the WORIMI CONSERVATION LANDS DRAFT PLAN OF MANAGEMENT on page 62 it pertains to kite buggies " 12.8 LAND YACHTING Land yachting and the related activities of kite landboarding and buggying are land based variations of sailboarding and kitesurfing. Land yachting and kite buggying typically involve the use of three-wheeled vehicles propelled by wind using a fixed sail or a kite. Kite landboarding involves the use of a kite to propel the rider of a land or mountainboard, which is similar in design to a skateboard, but larger with pneumatic wheels and foot-straps. The dunes and the eastern end of the beachfront are preferred locations used by riders in the WCL. This group of activities typically occurs infrequently, and in comparatively low numbers. Issues There is potential for land yachting, kite landboarding and buggying to directly impact on Worimi cultural values by travelling on and through Aboriginal sites and cultural material. Similar concerns exist regarding the disturbance of beach vegetation, particularly in the swale areas. There are safety concerns regarding the compatibility of land yachting and related activities with other activities and visitor use, especially during peak periods. These issues combine to limit the capacity of the WCL to provide for land yachting and related activities. Desired outcomes ■■ Land yachting, kite landboarding and buggying does not impact on cultural and natural values and is carried out with appropriate approvals. Management responses 1. Land yachting, kite landboarding and buggying will require the consent of the park authority and are permitted on the beachfront between the Sygna and the Gan Gan Road access frontal dune crossing, and in the Recreation Vehicle Area. Conditions regarding the timing and specific location of the activity may apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Emi - the important part of all that is that the plan is still in draft format and hasn't been signed off according to my conversation with the ranger.. also this part is key...and believe it would be worthwhile for EK as a community to discuss this with NPWS once the plan of management is in force. 1. Land yachting, kite landboarding and buggying will require the consent of the park authority and are permitted on the beachfront between the Sygna and the Gan Gan Road access frontal dune crossing, and in the Recreation Vehicle Area. Conditions regarding the timing and specific location of the activity may apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emidub_4 Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Emi - the important part of all that is that the plan is still in draft format and hasn't been signed off according to my conversation with the ranger.. also this part is key...and believe it would be worthwhile for EK as a community to discuss this with NPWS once the plan of management is in force. 1. Land yachting, kite landboarding and buggying will require the consent of the park authority and are permitted on the beachfront between the Sygna and the Gan Gan Road access frontal dune crossing, and in the Recreation Vehicle Area. Conditions regarding the timing and specific location of the activity may apply. Thanks Crazy, was just looking through and stumbled across it last night. So a bigger question maybe is there any other places to kite buggy in the Anna bay area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger37 Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Thanks to all who have tried to get answers. I simply cannot understand the logic of allowing 4WD on the beach and not buggying. I agree that EK should start to lobby for access to beaches throughout Australia. I guess this is a job for Team Members but you have my support in which ever way I can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy666 Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 The problem with the website lobbying for beach access is that it would then also be responsible for those using the beach. If there is ever an accident involving the public it would come back on the owners of the website. Also if a lot of councils had an agreement with one group, if one member is banned it could effect everyone. My advice about buggying on Stockton, would be to just go and buggy. If the rangers stop you just play dumb, apologise and pack up for the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoutherlyBuster Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 I guess with all National Parks there are no go zones for cetain activities, so provided the kiting cominity actively encourages and lets all know of the no go zones, should be fine. I appreciate and respect there are no go zones based on vegetation degradation or Aboriginal importance. Ok, putting that asside, the main concern I have is kiting plus cars travelling way too fast or in too big numbers is a major risk to the kiters -- the main reason I've never come back to Stockton. If there were zones on the beach were cars don't go or rarely go, that is where we as a kiting community should be pushing for to get access to for our kiting activities. We should also have agreed speed restrictions for kiting when passing people on the beach. Wouldn't want to put numbers on this, just common sense amongst the kiters should be encouraged. For instance at Speed Week in VIC at Sandy Point, agreements have been reached with the local council that we are not to pass the through the surf flags zone. Similar restrictions at the Inlet, and we all know Joel actively let's other kiters breaking the rules know in uncertain terms when the rules are violated. So a bit of self regulation goes a long way. All the best with getting an agreement with the National Parks people. Regards, Norman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Too right andy, my previous post was purely a suggestion of what could potentially be a way of getting access, it all seems a bit hard nowadays so im going to bow out of the stockton discussion and go back to minding my own business The problem with the website lobbying for beach access is that it would then also be responsible for those using the beach. If there is ever an accident involving the public it would come back on the owners of the website. Also if a lot of councils had an agreement with one group, if one member is banned it could effect everyone. My advice about buggying on Stockton, would be to just go and buggy. If the rangers stop you just play dumb, apologise and pack up for the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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