Skyhooked1600949554
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Alvin reacted to a review: Advance Offroad
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Alvin reacted to a review: HQ Montana 5M, 7.5M, 9.5M, & 12.5M Prototype
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Alvin reacted to a review: Peter Lynn Venom 10M
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bakersdozen reacted to a review: HQ Crossfire Depower
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anchor - the one supplied is a lot more forgiving to land on rather than the dog corkscrew, it may not be you that lands on it! ideally you want the ground stake lying flat on the ground once not in use as opposed to still dug in. nice review
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yep - that about sums up how my venom2 experience goes! they're high revving kites, but they don't stall easily. sometimes the speed and pure upwind ability of these kites is overlooked. they scare me on land.
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nutsoft - the technique you explain works, but aye wrong terminology. the lines from the trim strap to the LE of the kite are the power lines - the brakes are attaeched to the back of the kite, when you pull the bar in it activates the brakes
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the kiting pics were taken in july, the surfing one october and the panorama october. summer gets busy for sure, but you get good days...and there is always evening sessions. just head up to the north end of the beach...its too far for the bathers to walk
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Watergate Bay, Atlantic Coast, Cornwall Grid ref: SW832648 Watergate Bay once stood as the jewel of the UK kite scene, the spiritual home of kiting they said. Now, some may say this beauty's glow has dimmed, and the spotlight now shines brighter on the kiting Mecca's of Blackrock and Westward Ho! Watergate Bay still remains a big wind spot, but recently it seems kiters are going home with mixed experiences…turbulent winds, bomb holes in the sand, crowds…so what's the truth about Watergate Bay – was there every anything there before the hype? Read on fellow kiters – it's time to explode a few myths… https://www.extremekites.org/uploads/rk/reviews/the_vista.jpg How to get there Watergate Bay is located on the coast road between Newquay and Padstow – on the B3276. The road leading in (and out) of the bay is typical Cornish B road – beautiful, steep and twisting by turn. Approaching from the north or the south on the high cliff road, you are greeted by the awesome panorama of the mighty blue Atlantic Ocean. Parking During winter months, it is possible to park for free in the Watergate ‘hamlet'. The council car park – the muddy one about 300m walk from the beach – is unmanned out of season. From May to October, the council will want £3 for 2hrs and £5 per day per vehicle. The Extreme Academy car park is located right above the beach, that costs £1 per hr, and £5 full day, all year round. In the peak summertime, an overflow car park high up on the cliffs holds a lot of cars – it's a bit of a walk down to the beach from there (10 mins or so). Lifeguards The area of beach infront of the beach complex is lifeguarded by the RNLI between May and October, as well as Easter weekend. The lifeguards are paid for by the Restormel Borough Council. The RNLI do not patrol the long stretch of beach past the big rock cluster (the North End) as they are not paid to. https://www.extremekites.org/uploads/rk/reviews/RNLI.jpg Facilities Watergate Bay is home to the fantastic Phoenix Pub. You can't miss it as you descend the windy road in from Newquay. Here, you can refuel on gut busting ‘surfer special' meals washed down with local ales. The sun terrace has views over the ocean – great for keeping an eye on the surf / kites. On the beach itself, the Watergate Bay Hotel and the XA hold court. The hotel is a posh affair, and the XA boats a café bar and upstairs restaurant with direct views on to the beach. Peak season sees the XA takeaway peddling overpriced, tasteless food. A good surf shop (sells a few kiting bits) and surf hire restore the extreme image integrity. Between the Phoenix, hotel, XA and the council loo's it's possible to answer natures call all year round. Beach Size and Kiting Area Although the beach appears huge on the map, the usable kiting area stretches for about 2km. At low tide, the beach is up to 300m wide. Watergate is backed by huge, towering granite cliffs along its length, so the usable beach width is more like 200m if you want to stay out of the updrafts and soft sand. Although the ‘South End' looks tempting, avoid kiting there as you will be too close to the cliffs and that end is rock strewn. https://www.extremekites.org/uploads/rk/reviews/blissed.jpg Restrictions No bylaw restrictions at Watergate, though a common sense rule of no kiting 2 hrs either side of high tide should be adhered too. Flouting this rule puts you too close to the cliffs, and leaves no space for others as the beach gets tiny as the tide comes in (the whole North and South End can submerge). During the peak season, the main beach is too busy to kite on, so just head to the North End. No launching kites between lifeguard beach flags. Tides Watergate like all North Cornish beaches has a huge tide – up to 7m difference between high and low water. Get a look at the tides before kiting here. A simple rule to follow is – spring tides (the biggest) have a low tide midday, with high tide around 6pm. Neap tides (not so high, not so low) have a low tide in the evening, meaning that in winter, you cant get a session in on a neap day as its too dark. Neap tides will hardly seem to move, but a spring rattles in very quickly – keep an eye on your kit lest it may be swallowed and sent to the mermaids… Sand State The sand at Watergate ranges between hard packed billiard table and the waterlogged surface of the moon. This is due to the swell. Big, thumping swells and onshore winds empower the ocean to pick up the sand and deposit it in hard, smooth layers as the tide recedes. Small waves lack the helicoidal power to pick up the sand, and thus just chip away at the beach, so when the tide drops the beach is left pitted and unridable. https://www.extremekites.org/uploads/rk/reviews/blade.jpg Human Traffic In the winter, there aren't many people around save the odd hardcore surfer and token dog walker, it's likely you' get the whole beach to yourself, day in day out. Shoulder season busy time such as Easter, Maybank, October half term and even Christmas see all sorts of occasional beach users flocking to the beach. You'll get walkers, runners, short tennis and football matches, drama groups…it's all very cosmopolitan, but shouldn't present a problem to courteous kiters. In peak summer time thousands flock here. Somedays it's just too busy to kite. The solution? Go at night – or during the evening (see note on neap tides). Other Kiters There are a few regular Kitesurfers at Watergate, but land based riders are thin on the ground Apart from myself and a few that work in the XA, there aren't many locals to meet. Winter time, unless we're out, you're on your own. As the season builds, so to do the number of kites in the sky. The vibe at Watergate is very laid back, the only stress would come from the number of kites in the sky during peak season. https://www.extremekites.org/uploads/rk/reviews/kitesurfers.jpg Best Wind Direction First thing to know about Watergate wind – when it's offshore, go surfing! Those cliffs are just too high and create the worst wind conditions I have ever experienced – nothing works in those winds, take my word for it and save the pain. Otherwise, anything with a W in it is good – this will be coming from the sea, with WNW – NW pretty much bang onshore. Luckily the prevailing wind in Cornwall is West (it's SW by the time it gets to ‘England') making Watergate a fairly consistent location despite not having the biggest wind exposure window. Swell Swell is important for flattening the sand and also for surfing, and will have an impact on your kite surfing experience. The sea state can range from totally flat (rare) to triple overhead monster waves – though these break a long way from the shore. This is dependant on storms way out to sea. To simplify, there are two types of swell – ground swell and wind swell. Ground swell is the organised, spaced sets of waves that surfers love, and is generated from storms way out around Greenland. Wind swell is much more messy looking, and occurs when the storm is too close to the beach and the waves don't have time to get organised. Ground swells have an open ocean wave period of over 10seconds if you are checking a buoy report. Both types of swell if over 2m will usually pack the sand down and give you a right hiding if you fall of your surfboard! https://www.extremekites.org/uploads/rk/reviews/big_swell.jpg Hazards Land - Updrafts near to the towering cliffs; soft sand near to the cliffs and after small swells; swarming crowds in summer; rocks at ends of the beach and near cliffs. Water – Huge swells, jelly fish, weaver fish (Google it), surfboards; rips. A note about rips – a rip is where the water that is pushed in by the waves finds its way back out to sea, like an underwater river. If you are caught in a rip, you will be sucked out to sea – swimming against rips is the number one cause of drowning in Cornwall. Swim across the ‘river' and the waves will push you back to shore. Identify rips : * Sandy patches of water as you observe the beach from the cliffs * Choppy, small waves that cant break due to the increase in depth * Rips occur near headlands and cliffs * So once you've negotiated and planned your trip around all of the above, you'll finally get to… The kiting experience Watergate is a magical, mystical place to kite – the sun sets over the sea and the warm breezes carry the scent of an ocean that remains as pure today as ever. Conditions often conspire to produce giddying, blissful sessions that leave the body in tatters and the mind blown. The winds here come roaring unobstructed out of the Atlantic and straight into the cells of your kite. Peregrine Falcons wheal and call in the thermals overhead while the vaulting granite cliffs light up in the golden Cornish sunshine, and you - you power across the golden sands just soaking up every ion thrown up in the spume of the crashing surf. The huge swells boom thunderously and the noise is intense and you are charged with the energy that reverberates in this natural amphitheatre. https://www.extremekites.org/uploads/rk/reviews/buggy_wheel_up.jpg Later, locals, surfers, those that know the sea, acknowledge you with a wry smile as you sup on a well earned local ale in the cosy pub. "Looks like you had the best of it out there mate" one might say. You may think he's referring to the fact that you and your kite got good conditions while all the surfers are hunkered down waiting for a calmer day…but hold on to his comment a little longer and you'll realise what he really means for you to hear. You, out there, with your kite and your buggy with the skills you earned the hard way, took the best of what the Atlantic could throw at you...and for a few seconds on that last run, holding your breath, Watergate drew back the veil and let you in on the biggest secret in kiting locations…Watergate rocks! Author : Skyhooked
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yeah, windspeed seem alright for a 3m blade? the 3m doesnt have the aggressive characteristics of the 4.9m. chris calthrop used the same kite - 3m blade 3, to kitesurf jaws, the wind up the face was 40knots or so. windmeters - very good for personal records of how your kite flies in certain winds, but i have found sometimes they arent always that accurate - reading 20knots when its blowing proper old boots. maybe its just the little skywatch ones that are like that
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hi antigrav - i remember you from last year - you were flying the G-ArC? you'll be pleased to know that the park is very smooooth now as have spent the last few days rolling the ground flat - makes crusing much more comfortable have also added another 'superbank' along one side - some work needed to get the cat tracks smoothed for the diggers - but its only close to the bank itself glad you felt you progressed and that your dad had a great time too maybe see you again this year?
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good honest review! glad you are loving the kite si! i have to say that i think the phantom is more stable and better in gusts than the venom 1 or 2, and may even have more depower. the 15m p is a lovely kite, and is a lot of fun on flat water too. re: inflation, squashing the air is prob the best way as turning the kite round just rubs sand against the fabric. the 15m p seems more resistant to bowties than the 9m and 12m too.
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would like to get my hands on the 7.1m. the smaller ones are so stable and easy to control in gusts, but i know that the 10m is a real handfull. thinking the 7.1m will be very sweet and it sounds great - 34mph is fair shifting!
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thanks guys! for the individual ratings, cant think what i would mark the kite down on - it does exactly what it was designed to do! (and the design brief was quite specific - stable kite, smooth power, no lift at zenith etc...) only not brilliant thing is the bag - but still it works. wonder if advance will ever bring out an offroad 2?
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Advance Offroad This is a review looking back on 18months of hammering the Advance Offroads – it relates to the 2.4m, 3.8m and 5.4m. The characteristics are the same for these sizes. There is also a 7.1m (I’ve not flown it) and a mighty 10m – but that really was an experiment in light wind power, and we should steer clear. The Offroad is what you may call a freeride kite – like the Ozone Access or FS Rookie2 – but remember this was all happening with the Offroad over two years ago. Designed to work with handles or depower bar, the Offroad promised a safe, versatile traction engine for exploring backcountry snowkite areas. Its ease of use and lack of lift hinted at the potential of the kite to take the rider places suggested by its name… Build Quality This kite was designed by Robert Graham, the legendary paraglider designer that now works for Gin Gliders. This is a man who enjoys meticulous attention to detail. Remember this kite was made back in 04, the canopy is Porcher Marine Fabric – paragliders stake their lives on this stuff – and the leading and trailing edges are trimmed with rigid, shiny, Mylar. The bridles are sleeved in groovy Neon fabric but remain very supple with a superbly streamlined profile. Machinework is faultless – even the holes on the kites internal cell ribs are stitched. The bar set up is solid and simple. The chicken loop is a webbing type that larksheads onto your spreader bar – it works and requires no donkey stick to keep it in place. The safety sits between this and the bar, and is very easy to reassemble. The Spectra leader ends all have nice stitched ends rather than cheap tied and melted knots. Lines are coated, pre stretched, with stitched sleeves. The bridle pulleys are the same as those used on the new GK Sonic. The wrist leash is a sign of the times and works off the two back lines. The whole package is satisfyingly finished off with the discreet Advance logo stitched in many different places. In flight – general The Offroad is very easy to fly. It’s easy to feel the smoothness of flight after only a few seconds, but it will still hold your attention many sessions later when you have become too familiar with it. It has the ‘favourite’ kite quality. Put it where you want it in the window, and control it with the brakes – this is a four line kite. Launching and landing are a doddle. Rather than a general run down of the pros and cons, I have selected a few sessions from memory that really sum up what owning an Offroad is all about. Test 1 – Buggy Various South West Beaches, January 05 (on sand) Wind speed – usually very smooth 15-20knots With the depower set up, I learnt more in the buggy over one month than in the rest of my buggy riding put together. The Offroad is great for surface tricks in the buggy, the bar makes it very comfortable in big winds, and the power up option is great for speed runs. Predictable smooth pull and gust absorption perfect for backwards riding, spins, two wheelers and generally shredding. Still my favourite choice for the buggy. ***** for being a smooth, powerful, competent buggy engine Test 2 – Kitesurfing CrantockBeach, March 05, (on water) Wind speed 25knots plus Venturi effect from dunes. Was very unsure about the wind conditions so used the Offroad for a solo Kitesurfing session in shallow water. Depower bar set up. Got up and riding for a while, kite was easy to turn to get over waves. Upwind ability not great, lack of depower when getting board on made it a bit of a struggle. Crashed the kite once and it actually relaunched (!), more of a novelty factor than a serious option – but didn’t stop me from trying again. Kite pulled very hard on wrist leash when safety pulled after a hell squall took me from the water. Self launch and relaunch very easy, though lack of lift not suited to water. Use LEIs and ARCs for water now, but still waiting for that perfect day to get out on the Offroad again… ** for the sight of a foil above water *** for going beyond the call of duty and flying while soaked Test 3 – Landboarding Blue Ridge Mountains, USA, Jan 06, (on grass – elevation 2500ft) Wind speed – 0 – 20knots, with severe updrafts and variable direction The most outrageously gusty spot I have ever flown a kite in, and the second tightest (see Hammet St.). Used the handles to pacify the kite in the swirling eddies – it actually worked. The wind was blowing vertically up the mountain, and felt safe enough with the back lines fully tightened (kite wouldn’t overfly!) to hit a few jumps. Even when double gusted under power, the lift was ‘capped’, and spare trousers not needed. Kite retained its characteristics in the most marginal conditions, was usable enough to go back the next day. **** for direct control in gusts **** for delivering forgiving flying characteristic when needed most Test 4 – Body Surfing Thailand, Various Islands, Dec 05 (water) Wind speed – 3-8knots, weak thermals The missus used these kites on several uninhabited islands in Thailand. With the winds to light for the board, she would set off in boat and find a launch. Using the handles, the kite looked quick to turn and the luff control made sure it never hit the water. If there was enough wind to get the kite to zenith, it would develop enough power for body surf – impressive for a low aspect number. Staved off insanity on otherwise tedious sea passages. **** for being so durable and not tearing over coral when so far from a kiteshop ***** for lightwind performance - fantastic Test 5 – Kite-O-Skate Hammet Street Ind. Est, USA, Feb 06, (on concrete) Wind speed – 0-8knots, wind spoiled by close proximity of buildings and trees First time landboarding on concrete, used the Offroad on handles. Gusts and lulls from the surrounding environment easily absorbed, and lack of lift reduced chance of being pulled from a board with no bindings. Predictable pull fundamental for concrete kiting – the Offroad could be put anywhere in window and allowed for some real exploration of the area, much to delight of workers on industrial estate. Enjoyed several great days concrete kiting. ***** for being a safe, non lifty companion when checking out alien terrain **** for tight turning radius allowing smooth toeside carves Conclusion After18months of hard flying I’ve not found as much as even a stretched line. The kites’ fabric is still crispy and light, no tears, wear, bridle problems, stitching issues…These kites are just the same – the colour hasn’t faded, and they have resisted dirt ingress. The Offroad is not a high performance upwind lift machine, its an all round versatile good guy, and if it were an animal it would be a big friendly aardvark – we’d all like one but they are quite scarce and we don’t know where to buy them from. When you fly this kite back to back against a Bullet, Crossfire, Beamer, Blade, Rebel, Radsail, Samurai, Little Devil et al (group test – not just my opinion) you can instantly feel the smoothness of flight and precise positioning around the window. It wont out-lift and out-uwpind ALL of the above, yet if I had to fly a kite for 24hrs straight the Offroad would be it. Although the bar doesn’t unlock the true potential of the kite, it works brilliantly in smooth winds and lets you get all experimental with unhooked riding. The Offroad obligingly does as it is asked when on handles – making the most of some pretty foul winds, and still manages to look great in the sky thanks to the sublime build quality and design pedigree. It’s unlikely that many more of these kites will find new owners in today’s busy market place. The Offroad is not a new kite, and is now ‘lost’ among the competition – no longer conforming to the zeitgeist of what we are told we need from a kite. But if you have a space in your bag for a travelling companion to see you through the best and the worst of times, a kite that responds with grace to whatever challenges you throw at it and still brings a smile to your face, I can’t think of a better place to start looking. Author : Skyhooked
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had a session on the 10m v last week over in the states. they arent big over there, and the other kiters hadnt seen a v before. conditions were a mare - sideways rain and super gusty with big waves. venom felt like riding on a cushion of air and was the last kite up at the end of the day. high end ability of these kites is surely unrivalled.
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Advance skorpio 16.5m 05 tube kite, 5th line equipped Advance once shone brightly in the foil kite world, the attention to detail and sweet flying characteristics of their designs earning them great respect, even if not a huge market share in the UK Despite their low profile today, Advance are busy creating new designs to compete in the most demanding sector of the kite world - tube kites. A brave move for a company whos presence is so discreet in the UK as to appear almost shadowy...or perhaps, secretive I have owned my Skorpios for a little under 3 months, and tested them in sub zero conditions in Norfolk through to soaring humid temps in south East Asia via sub tropical conditions in Florida. They have been flown inland, on the beach and in the water in smooth wind thermals and gusty fronts - here are my findings from these varied sessions Packaging and build quality The bag is functional and red, and a little Spartan. Really nothing fancy. The kite fortunately proudly flies the flag of the legendary advance quality. Touted by the company as the toughest wave riding kite on the market, the skorpio is verging on the overbuilt. Great news for those of us who are a little heavy handed and can't replace our quiver every six months. Individual psi pressures are stamped on each strut and the pump is supplied with a pressure gauge. Grab handles in the middle and at each end of the leading edge help with carrying and self rescue with an inflated kite. All stitching is typically 'bomber' as they say. I am not that experienced in textiles though and for me the real nature of the Skorpio construction reveals itself in the flying. Bar and lines 60cm bar with this one - perhaps a little long and I found the 50cm bar worked just great. The bar has a very smooth trim adjuster - even when under load - and the power line to the chicken loop is sleeved to prevent fraying. The back lines each have their own trim adjusters too - so that you can fine tune the kite whilst it is flying. The fifth line runs through a cleat on the underside of the trim strap, and is reverse tapered meaning you can manipulate the fifth line on the fly - effectively further depowering the kite The lines are some of the best I have seen - hardly any memory and resistant to tangles and twists. All colour coded, with loops and knots attachment points to avoid confusion. The lines have stoppers stitched into them, meaning you can run the leash on the fifth, power, or back line as you wish with no faffing stopper balls required. The real beauty is the line lengths - 23m but with 4m extension attached - giving 27m lines. Along with the usual multitude of pig tail attachments on the kite altering speed and depower, there are enough set up and control options to suit the fussiest kiters in the most changeable conditions In the air The Skorpio is designed to create pop rather than lift. The analogy here would be to imagine taking a swift kick up the arse to reach the top floor of a building, rather than an elevator. I found when jumping with this kite that the initial launch would resemble being shot from a cannon, followed by a weightless floaty hangtime and glidey descent. This really helps with unhooked riding as the kite isn’t trying to escape your grasp allowing for one handed tricks. The lift and hangtime of the skorpio are as you may expect from a paraglider manufacturer...Send this kite hard and you WILL GO UP! I found that by keeping the kite a little higher in the window than with other kites, and then redirecting hard to the other side of the window I could best exploit the pop effect of the skorpio Turning speed For a big kite, the 16.5m skorpio is so quick to turn. It responds very quickly to commands and is easy to position and redirect even after lower jumps. With the bar pulled sheeted right in, or when flying unhooked, the kite will loop very quickly - and with hardly any power. I have felt much more comfortable going for kite loops with this larger kite than I have with other smaller kites – that said, the ability to pull massive powered spine bending loops is lying just under the surface…as can be witnessed on the Skorpio videos on the Advance website. Cruising Although the skorpio might not have the same upper wind range of say an ARC, the usefulness of it’s depower is probably greater. Often kites will not fly great at the extremes of their trim - regardless of wind speed, and seldom can you make proper use of the extremes of the trim strap during the course of one session. With the skorpio I have enjoyed sessions with the kite fully depowered, unhooking and trying new stuff. Next I would fully power the kite up and try to hang on as the brutal power built up with the increasing speed. My experience till this point of fully powering kites and trying to ride would result in back stall, or no real increase in power. And at the other end, fully depowered, I had experienced floppy slack steering and no bar pressure. Advance have succeeded in producing a kite that really utilises the depower concept, no back stall fully powered and good bar pressure and steering when depowered – the Skorpio flies very well on its back lines. Repower Further to the effectiveness of the trim strap, sheeting the bar in and out while riding has a more pronounced effect than I have found with other kites. When hitting a lull, pulling the Skorpio’s bar in will honestly get you through it. Likewise in a gust, letting the bar out a couple of inches you can almost feel the wind spill from the back of the Skorpio, letting you ride smoothly onwards. Sounds like an obvious requirement for a depower kite, but I know I have flown a few that don't manage this. Conclusion The Skorpio is a high end product. It has been designed to meet the demands of very accomplished and progressive riders (I certainly don't explore the potential of this kite!). It has been built to withstand crashing in heavy surf and perform in winds at the upper extreme of its range. The Skorpio retains its shape and composure superbly in the air, delivering smooth but incredible power throughout the window. Lift and hang time are sublime. The turning speed is very rapid. The build of the kite and its components are so thorough and solid that I feel safe when pushing my limits that a line won’t snap or the canopy tear even when under load. The Skorpio is the serious tool that we should expect from a company like Advance kites. I have yet to find flaw with it, I’m sure the kite will always be way beyond me. with the Skorpio, Advance have served to illuminate a gaping void between rush job bandwagonesque designs that are tested post production on the public, and companies such as themselves who are striving to craft the most effective, strongest kites - albeit at the expense of market share and unit sales. For those that remember or indeed own an Advance foil and have been wondering what the company will offer next, I would urge you to get a fly on the Skorpio. The kite retains the smooth, quality feel of the older foils (while being completely progressive within the LEI field), and gives the flyer a curious feeling of one-upmanship when on the beach. It costs a little more than you might wish to pay for a new kite, but good windy days are too short and too far between to not fly the best! Author : Skyhooked
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that's a good, honest review mate - from my time with the kite i'd say that he is spot on with the praise and criticism! good review from Mr February 2006 (wink wink!)
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yup luxury item is exactly the phrase i was looking for! sometimes the kites can turn into tools - there to perform a function rather then being the ends themselves... important to have a kite that you fly for the sake of it...and just imagine taking the peel and a buggy over to one of the huge beaches in denmark...at sunset...in august